Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Israel is not Nazi Germany

I wasn’t going to write anything about this entire Seven Jewish Children guff because – frankly – who really gives a fat rat’s.

Getting off the train at Parliament station the other day however, I had an encounter with a group calling on the State Government to dump Connex as the metropolitan train operator because its parent company has business links with Israel and “like, Israel is like Nazi Germany”.

Therein ensued a short conversation, which may or may not* ended with me calling the boycott bloke “an ignorant fucking knob-end”.

This inspired me to have a closer look at some of the issues.

First thing. Israel is NOT Nazi Germany. Israel, for all its flaws, is a working Parliamentary democracy. Nazi Germany was not.

Second thing. Israel is not involved in a “genocide” against “the Palestinians”, or it’s one of the most incompetent genocides in history given the fact there are still several hundred thousand Palestinians living cheek-by-jowl with the Jewish state; established 1948. What is this – genocide by “work to rule”?

Third thing. Isn’t it slightly odd that these buffoons whip themselves up into a lather about the “genocide” being conducted by Israel but the situation in Darfur – where the Sudanese Government is actively committing crimes against humanity – gets not a mention?

The boycotters whine about the Australian Government “always supporting Israel”. Call me an old-fashioned lefty, but faced with a choice between a country with a working democracy with a free media, an independent judicial system and robust debate or a pack of theocratic fascists like Hamas – I know which group I’d be lining up behind.

I don’t think all critics of Israeli are anti-Semites. I do think a great many of them are dickheads.

*I suspect I may have used these and other similar expressions.


Lewd Bob said...

Again, it's this automatic 'leftist' stance that everything Israeli or American is bad.

Why can't people make a decision and take a stance based on an informed and considered position? Rather than making everything black and white? Many people act as though there are only 2 possible positions on any issue. Is it because it's so easy to pigeonhole certain nations, individuals or causes? Based on the opinions of others?

Perseus said...

My pet topic!

You're more kind than I am.

Anecdotally, the claim the left makes that, "Oh, you can't criticise Israel without being labelled an anti-semite" is usually in itself anti-semitic.

It's their version of, "I'm not racist, but..."

The far-left claim victim status... victims of 'US Imperialism' and 'Israeli Fascism' as a means to argue against them and appear down-trodden. The irony being, it is the very democratic values of both the US and Israel that enables them to protest on their own soil. Try protesting against a real fascist state (eg: Iran) omn home soil and see how far you get, arsewipes.

Perseus said...

Off topic: Wallace gone!

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Wallace gone!

The Zionists have struck again!!!!!!!!

wari lasi said...

Wallace gone!

Does that mean I should tip them this weekend? I thought maybe they were half a chance against the Bombers at the G. Is this positive or negative for them?

Perseus said...

Scratch that. He wasn't sacked at all. Which makes me ask the question, why did the media announce he was sacked when he wasn't? They were guessing? Why can't they learn to report news, not invent news?

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Why can't they learn to report news, not invent news?

Why break the habits of a lifetime?

I was always taught "it's important to get it first but it's more important to get it right".

Lewd Bob said...

They didn't guess. It was a rumour. Isn't that the same as fact?

Melba said...

I know I should just leave this alone, I know this'll end badly, and you know what, I'm going to limit myself to just three comments on this thread.

I am not anti-Semitic, I am not anti-Jew, I am not anti-Judaism.

I cannot accept that to be critical of Israel (not totally, as a default position, mind you, but in the same way I would be critical of ANY other country and their actions/decisions/policies) is to be anti-Semitic and therefore racist. What, I have to be scared of being labelled anti-Semitic?

It's fucking ridiculous, and I wonder if you are just baiting me, Perseus?

And Ramon. It's too simple, too black and white, to judge a nation on whether it's a functioning democracy. You say Israel is ok by you because they're a functioning democracy. End of story. For fuck's sake.


Melba said...

I forgot to say that those people handing out the things at the station, I agree you were too kind. I hasten to add I don't agree with their view!


Fuck, wasted a comment!

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

No Melba, I said that when faced with a choice between a functioning democracy like Israel and fascists nutcases like Hamas, then I'm on Israel's side.

This is because on the "We are all Hamas" guff the loopy left tend to trot out.

Perseus said...

No Melba, not baiting.

The far left claim Israel should not exist and is 'illegal' and refer back to 1948. They ignore everything leading up to 1948, and most of what has happened since. It is to them I directed my comments.

I don't like the settlements either, and wish they were torn down. I don't think that is anti-semitic.

But to call Israel 'illegal' and 'a fascist state' is factually wrong, and it smacks of anti-semitism no matter how hard they try to say it isn't. It is usually these same people that support extreme-right fascists like Hamas, Hezbollah and 'brave Iraq insurgents' (like Al Quaeda). Socialist Alliance is guilty of this. They are on record as saying they support Hamas, and then try to say they are not anti-semitic.

It's like saying in 1943, "I'm not anti-semitic, but I fully support the Nazi Party in their struggles against imperialist England."

Technically not anti-semtitic.

Realistically so.

Anonymous said...

Bugger the Palestinians, what about the Canaanites? They got hard done by.

You didn't see Egyptian Pharoah Ba'hrak Ohbehma negotiating any two state solution with Israel back in those days, did you?

wari lasi said...

I don't think you need to qualify what you're saying too much Melba. I don't know the people here that well but I'm pretty sure any blatantly bigoted comment would get shouted down in a huge hurry.

The Jews (most of the ones I've known/know) are famous for taking the piss out of themselves for the "anti-Semitic" line every time someone disagrees with them about anything.

I had an Israeli working for me, and whilst he hated averything Muslim, with a passion, he acknowledged that the settlements in the occupied territories were wrong. As he said, "I chose not to live in Israel, didn't I?"

As for Israel staying a democracy, that's an issue I discussed with a lady who was here checking out dive sites for some Israeli travel company. She said one of the great challenges to face Israel in the next 50 years is that currently just over 20% of Israel's population are ethnic Arabs (Muslims). But they are breeding at more than twice the rate of the Jewish population. So at some stage the Muslims will constitute a democratic majority. She said there is already talk of limited suffrage. How will the rest of the world take that I wonder?

Sorry for the long post.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Well, indeed Wari.

At some point they'll have to decide if they want to be democratic or predominantly Jewish.

Melba said...

Point taken, Ramon. See, I get so hot-headed I don't read properly.

Wari, I was being very careful because of what Perseus had said, and I was trying to clearly state that I didn't think being critical of Israel, is akin to being anti-Semitic.

But this is my last comment and Squire P and I have been around and around on this topic before, so I don't want to get on that merry-go-round again.

In closing, I borrow from the most charming peacemaker I know, Mathir, and say I KISS YOU!!!!!!

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Fair enough Melba.

Oh and my Neil Young style sidies have gone.

The Mrs objected.

She said it was like being maried to the Wolfman.

Mr E Discharge said...

THIS is worth a look.

wari lasi said...

It certainly was Mr E.

Not too sure about poster "rob" completely hijacking the thread though.

It remains emotive stuff and tragically no closer to resolution.

As I believe I've said before, sit down for half an hour with an educated Jew and you'll hate the Arabs, sit down with an educated Palestinian for half an hour and you'll hate the Jews.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

That rather proves my point Mr E.

I can't imagine somebody who is "actively involved in the non-violent protest" lasting too long in the Third Reich.

Mr E Discharge said...

I conceed your major point. Israel is not Nazi Germany. Granted.

Apart from that, I consider your entire argrument utter bullshit. It's a shame that this situation is so polarized that rational discussion is impossible. The words have been carefully crafted to obscure the reality. I remain un-apologetically anti-semantic.


Anonymous said...

If anything can turn Ramon anti-Israel, this would be it.