I've had a hard fortnight. Nothing I couldn't handle, but it was very... full. Family medical emergencies, lots and lots of work, a talkative sister staying with me for ten days, a cold, plus my band finally starting to rehearse again after a nine month layoff (our much awaited* comeback tour** starts mid September) all put together left not a minute to spare, and it was exhausting.
But on Saturday night there was a window of opportunity to let my short hair down. A bandmate had been invited to a birthday party at a nightclub called DV8 and the invitation was open to the whole band. Three of us went - cashed, liquored, narcotic'd and goth'd up.
DV8 is a 'goth/metal/punk' nightclub, and I had actually been there twice before. Once on its opening night (early to mid 90's, somewhere) and once a few months ago when Melbourne ska legends Commissioner Gordon did a one-off reunion gig, on a midweek night, but both times I was just a one-hour pop in visitor. I hate nightclubs, but if I'm forced to go to one I prefer something like DV8 because, really, what other nightclub will play Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades'?
But I worry for the next generation of goths.
When I was in my early 20's, us goth-punk hybrids knew our music, and, we also knew how to behave. We were nerds... we were kind to each other. It's not exactly like that anymore. There at Melbourne's premier goth nightclub I detected a certain, I dunno, urgency. I also noticed a lot of beer. Beer? You're goths! Goths don't drink VB! Also, goths shouldn't be on ice, or speed. But some people there were... you can just tell. Yes, we had an ecstacy pill but that's goth-friendly narcotics, it's a happy pill, not an edgy ticking time bomb.
But it wasn't just the sense of agro in the air, it was also the music. There were three levels in the nightclub and I heard a lot of great music, but, I also heard a lot of music that made me despair for my goth-punk sub-genre. Bon Jovi's 'Living On A Prayer'! No joke. One hundred young goths on the dance floor singing this at full volume, with not even a hint of irony! What the fuck? And a pool table? What happened to my genre?
I'm getting old. The genres I knew as a young'un have blurred. Goths are listening to bogan music, bogans now drive expensive cars and collect art, yuppies drink Crownies and I haven't seen a Nazi skinhead in years.
But at least a few things hadn't changed. Goth girls still show a lot of cleavage, and they still all smoke cigarettes. Goth bars are still drastically understaffed, and you have to wait about twenty minutes to get a drink. Science students still seem to be the majority. Goth sexual mores are still very liberal. There are still many, many nerdy pleasant goths around. At least on those levels I felt at home... and I managed to pick up and score a root, so, all in all, I ain't complaining too much.
* Not much awaited.
** By 'tour' I mean we're doing a series of pub gigs that we'll get about fifty bucks for.
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If you worry for the next wave of Punk/Goth/etc, you had best steer clear of anything organised by Destroy All Lines (so, Bang, Next, Anti, BadaBing)
Theres even sections in those above clubs that play 'commercial' music...
The lotsa-cleaveage-heavily-tattooed-chicks still make it worth my whilst to go, however...
Oh yes, as an aside Pers, I met myself a lovely lady, who is now my girlfriend, off that there internet dating...so, it can work...or maybe I am just lucky?
BMX: Despite you and Puss both urging me to stick with it, I deleted my RSVP profile after the first failure. It's just not for me...
Cleavagey tattooed chicks... yum.
Oh, and well done on scoring a missus. Get her pregnant ASAP.
I managed to pick up and score a root
So Perseus, I'm guessing it's nothing serious then?
Nope. It is not.
I felt very young again though. She lived in Brunswick, and my car happened to be parked at a bandmate's house also in Brunswick. So I stayed at her place, and when I got up at mid-day, I had to walk in the rain, still in all my goth clothes, back to his house. I felt 20!
Ahh, to make it worse, I was using one of the free sites (OasisActive)...
And thanks, I think I have found a keeper, shares my tastes (Bikes, cars, drinking, women...) and all that important shite..
And get her pregnant? Whoa! Hold your horses, Im only 25 in october! Theres no rush haha
Watch out that you don't end up like me... 40 and barren. I wish I knocked someone up in my 20's.
Oh, don't get me wrong, long term, down the track (30's) ill be happy to have kids...
At the moment I have a shitload of guys I went to school with who all have had kids too early who are now a) trapped, and b) regretting it.
And yes...mmm cleavage and tattoos...Im lucky that my woman pervs on more chicks than I :D cant wipe the smile off my face
A gothic pool table would be cool,cast iron with black felt and bat pockets and a huge candelabrum hanging over it... but Living on a Prayer is a bad bad idea
Im lucky that my woman pervs on more chicks than I :D cant wipe the smile off my face
Please communicate your thought processes to my boy.
Im lucky that my woman pervs on more chicks than I :D cant wipe the smile off my face
Please communicate your thought processes to my boy.
Watch out that you don't end up like me... 40 and barren. I wish I knocked someone up in my 20's.
Yeah, it's a real barrel of laughs over this side of the fence, PQ. You should try it.
You're not 40 and barren. You're 40 going on a sixty year old stubborn crotchety old man, who has a rigid and nigh impossible checklist that your perfect woman must meet:
i) Fertile enough for at least 2 kids (ergo ideally < 36)
ii) Not too young (ergo > 26)
iii) Intelligent, educated and well-read,
iv) Smoker or willing to tolerate your refusal to give up,
v) Willing to relocate to a sleepy coastal town many kms away from civilisation.
I put it to you that iii) is fairly incompatible with iv) and v) - most intelligent educated women these days aren't stupid enough to continue smoking, and if they had kids would certainly expect you to curtail it severely. And most educated women will have careers that they're not in a hurry to give up so they can move to your sleepy burg and raise your kids.
I'd love to have half the lack of constraints you have to pursue matters of romance.
Thank you at last for posting Perseus. Despite my lack of postage, I was still keeping an eye out (yes, whilst on my honeymoon) on TSFKA and noted your absence. Hope all is well in the family and things are settling down. Congrats also on pulling a root.
Boogeyman has rightly pointed out the enormous list of "must have's" for a woman to secure Pers's affections. His defiant stance on all of those matters will see him squandering his prose on more unappreciative 21 year olds for a little while younger.
Oh, and "Living on a Prayer"??? FFS! Any goths worth their makeup should have ejected the DJ on site, and then sulked on the floor looking morose for the next few days in protest!
Bon Jovi, eh?
Things are grimmer than I thought.
And your 20s is far too young to start a family - early to mid 30s is what I'd be thinking.
I don't think it's a bad thing that Pers has high standards. Mine were nigh on impossibly high, and I still managed to find someone. But then, I did go on literally hundreds of dates with losers before I found someone who measured up.
Still, why should anyone settle with second best? If that's what Pers wants, and he knows he won't be happy with anything less, then I say go for it.
However, unless you've put in a great effort to find the person of your dreams, I don't think you can complain about not finding them. It's like fat people who complain about being fat, but who don't go to the gym or diet. If you're not going to do anything to help yourself, I don't want to listen to you whinge.
i remember rollerskate discos at high school with Living on a Prayer playing and strobe lights and everybody talking about how cool the slippery when wet album was
Thank you Puss. I agree. I'm not going to get with someone for the hell of it.
... and Boogeyman, you are wrong with virtually everything you said anyway. I don't hold the opinions you attribute to me.
Puss - regarding your earlier comment, do you mean to say your boy has a problem with you checking out chicks?
Really? Then you should talk to the Perseus who posts on TSFKA under your name, because his words indicate he seeks entirely all those attributes in a woman.
Puss, I'm not suggesting someone should not have high standards. But not all rigidity and stubbornness can masquerade as 'standards'.
Pers - I think I've found the only man alive who wouldn't be happy either watching or participating in some girl-on-girl action.
Boogey - What else would they be?
"Fertile enough for at least 2 kids (ergo ideally < 36)"
Wrong. As much as I want kids, if I was deeply in love with someone who didn't want any I'd just have to get over it. Puss doesn't want kids, and I'd marry her!
ii) Not too young (ergo > 26)
Wrong. Ponygirl was 25. I'd have married her on the spot.
iii) Intelligent, educated and well-read,
That's somewhat true, though I put more emphasis on 'intelligent' than 'educated'. Wit, for instance, is sexier than academia, and equally as 'intelligent'. I wouldn't knock back an academic, but it's not an essential.
iv) Smoker or willing to tolerate your refusal to give up,
Bullshit. If I dated a non-smoker I'd quit. If I had a child, I'd quit.
v) Willing to relocate to a sleepy coastal town many kms away from civilisation.
Almost true. I do have a good little business down here, but I could move back to the city if my marital status depended on it. Furthermore, some people really do want to live down here... sea change and all, and I earn enough to support. We wouldn't be rich, but we wouldn't starve either.
****
Puss - so if you offered your bloke a threesome with Kate Winslet, he'd say no? My god.
Stick to your guns Pers, you’ve got years of fertility left in you and you can be picky if you choose, for as long as you like – lucky f*ck, .
I still reckon – even though you deny it loudly - you are waiting patiently for Ponygirl to come back.
I think I've found the only man alive who wouldn't be happy either watching or participating in some girl-on-girl action. Does he really mean it Puss, or is it just as long as one of them isn’t you?
I’ve noticed that the lines between tribes blurred along time ago – something around the time that Blink 182 were considered punk and Avril Lavinge was a riot grrrl (&^%*&^).
With the young folk, isnt its more about the clothes and the makeup that have them jumping from tribe to tribe, rather than the code of the tribe?
And selling out musical festivals before any acts are announced - what is with that too? What happened to the music?
Are they more into the image then any depth of character?
Pers, a Filipina mail-order bride woul meet most of those criteria. I've got some excess baggage allowance for when I return in October... any requests?
Puss the whole girl on girl thing holds no appeal for me either. If a lady is that way inclined, best of luck to her.
The whole threesome thing does nothing for me, and I reckon it's the same for most blokes. I think it's the idea of it that appeals to some (mostly from porn flicks, and how realistic are they for Christ's sake?) when in reality it would be really strange.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think so.
Pepsi, probably just as long as one of them isn't me.
Wari, threesomes aren't strange. They're fun. Having said that, I've never had one whilst in a relationship, so maybe they are in that regard.
Pers.
You and my sister would be perfect together. She's a bookish 29 year old. Currently living in Melbourne, but would prefer to live in the country. Non smoker. Keen on kids. Currently dating on RSVP without much success. GSOH. Quirky and a bit irreverent. Short black hair (but not Goth).
My Girlfriend and I cant believe she is still single and have been trying to set her up for years, but cant seem to find the right match for her (all my friends are married or tools - or both).
How do you want to do this...
Quirky might give you the wrong impression. She's not fake irritating Marieke quirky.
Email me Dr. G.
TSFKA - bringing happiness to lonely goths since yesterday.
GSOH. Quirky and a bit irreverent
"GSOH"
Internet Dating Site code for "Morbidly Obese".
Actually, Dr Golf, from memory Perseus had quite the thing for Marieke, so I don't see your sister having a resemblance as being any barrier.
Ramon, I don't suppose you have a sister living in Brisbane by any chance? How about a niece? A pre-menopausal Aunt? A distant cross-dressing third cousin? A hermaphroditic former maid? C'mon, throw me a bone here.
Mr E - watch out for anyone describing their music tastes as 'eclectic'.
I once saw a profile from a woman describing herself as having a "Hearing Disability".
Under "LIKES" she put:
"Quiet evenings at home".
Now they have me panicked. Dr. G... I am a thin person.
Mr E - watch out for anyone describing their music tastes as 'eclectic'.
Why? I used to list this all the time. What are you saying it's code for?
Also, anyone who lists their body as 'average' is usually fat. They just don't want to admit it and think because a size 14 is 'average' in Australia they can lay claim to it. Although I used to list myself as average so people were always pleasantly surprised when they met me.
Puss, everyone says their music taste is 'eclectic' on dating sites. It's an overused word to say, "I like a bunch of different stuff, but I'm too lazy to try to give even the most cursory description or analysis".
I'll bet you didn't know this, but my taste in art is 'eclectic'. My taste in films is 'eclectic'. My taste in books is 'eclectic'. Ditto my taste in music.
There now. You know just about as much about me and my tastes now as you did before you read that waste of 30 words.
When I was on RSVP for a week, whenever I saw the words 'trance', 'RnB' or 'Top 40' under the music section I moved immediately on to the next profile.
I also moved on from anyone saying they were either religious or agnostic, plus listing 'The Shawshank Redemption' was an immediate disqualification.
So was using more than one exclamation mark at the end of a sentence.
Little wonder I couldn't find anyone.
I would say using even one exclamation mark at the end of any given sentence is reason for disqualification. And people who over-use the ellipsis. Also, I've even seen people using fucking commas as space markers, as in this ,,,,,,, as some kind of emphatic thing,,,,,,
I know I previously didn't use capitals properly, that was when my output was higher, and also before I craved acceptance here in this brittle, snappish group.
Another pet hate: double spaces after full stop. Or wrong spacing, period.
That's a joke. Right there.
I also moved on from anyone saying they were ... agnostic
No wonder you never replied to my 'kisses'.
I usually filter out anyone whose profile text is all in CAPITALS (because I don't like being shouted at), or under reading mentions 'The Secret'.
Unless of course they are really hot, in which case all personality defects are thoroughly forgivable.
Another pet hate: double spaces after full stop. Or wrong spacing, period.
This is actually standard legal practise, Melba. I have and always will put two spaces after a full stop.
Puss, everyone says their music taste is 'eclectic' on dating sites. It's an overused word to say, "I like a bunch of different stuff, but I'm too lazy to try to give even the most cursory description or analysis".
Oh. Well, I always said it was eclectic and then listed some of the bands/singers/composers/whatver I liked. Does that exclude me from your rant?
It's also an old-fashioned way of typesetting, Puss in Boots. If you are a lawyer, or having to type their stuff, then coolio I say. Most large workplaces dealing with text have style guides. If not, then move with the times. Just because it's standard legal practice doesn't mean it's correct. In fact, quite probably the opposite.
I defer to the Australian Government Style Guide myself.
Two spaces after a full stop is not just applied in the legal industry, but is the standard for all typewritten or typeset documents.
But like the rest of the English language, no-one does it on the Internet.
Melba must be quite young if she wasnt taught to type on a typewriter but on a computer :-)
Double spacing after a full stop has been in every style guide I have ever used at work. And yes, all those jobs have been in the legal industry.
And even if I wasn't working in the legal industry, I'd still do it. I like the way it looks. I think it makes it easier to read. Just my opinion, but I'm entitled to it.
I don't think calling it 'incorrect' is correct, however. As I said, it's been in every style guide I've seen. I know there are arguments for and against it, but it's not incorrect in the same way that writing "these post's are pointless" is, for example.
Does that exclude me from your rant?
Nein nein nein NEIN NEIN!!! No one gets excludes from my rants.
Unless as I pointed out before, you are hot, which is a free pass for possession of any personality defects.
As you can see, my logic is, while not impeccable, at the very least eclectic.
I wasn't calling it specifically incorrect, but I can see how you read it that way, Puss. I was saying just because the legals do something, doesn't mean that's the right way to do something. You'd used that as evidence to support your use, I was just saying it's not really. Of course the style guides would all have used double spacing if they were all legal style guides and that's the convention.
It's a personal thing I guess. If you think it looks good, that's ok. I don't though.
I'm not young, Kitten. I'm old. I learnt to type on a typewriter and we probably did use the double spacing after full stops. But things have moved on since then, which was my original point.
I don't think it matters anymore, as these days single sentences seem to constitute entire paragraphs, so there is no requirement for any spacing after full stops.
But since I touch type, I am automatically programmed to hit the space bar twice after a full stop. If I had to slow down or stop to think about only doing it once, I'd never get anything written.
Boogey - that's kind of subjective. I'm sure some people think I am, while others don't. I don't know. It's hard to be objective about these things. Of course *I* think I look fabulous! Well, except for my nose (too pointy), and my eyelashes (not long enough), and my height (too short), and ... well, you see what I mean!
Melba - Oh, right. I see what you mean. I find it odd you learned to touch type on a typewriter and you don't use double spaces!
Kitten - I'm the same. I can't not use a double space. It just happens. I hate how HTML automatically takes out the second space, too. Leave it how I typed it, Internet!
I didn't get a computer until 2000. Before then, I had a cute little Olivetti that I took to London as hand luggage twice. There's something aurally satisfying about typewriters
But after all this time, I still type with two fingers
Kitten, I was going to leave this alone now but have to say that two spaces after a full stop is not standard for any and all typeset or typewritten documents. Not these days. I've worked both freelance and on magazines as a sub-editor (I'm outing myself, hope Ramon doesn't read this), I've written a thesis and other academic documents. Newspapers and other publications use a single.
Let's put it to bed. A google search on this:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=double+space+after+full+stop+australian+government+style+guide&meta=cr%3DcountryAU
Interestingly, first result is a law reference.
Perhaps I should have said "was" the standard. It has shifted due to the recent change from monospaced typefaces to the use of proportional fonts.
But as I consider myself to be "hip" to new fandangled things, I am going to attempt to stop using double spacing :-)
The Canberra Law Review is not a law firm, Melba.
And I suspect there will be new law firms that have opened in recent years that use single spacing, but I have only ever worked in Top Tier law firms, and they've all used double spacing.
And unlike Kitten, I don't intend to change! I like double spacing.
Actually, I do recall in first year law they tried to tell us to type documents with one space. I put my hand up in the lecture and told them if they taught that to the students, they'd be at a disadvantage when they began work, because 9 times out of 10, the students would have to kill that bad habit and relearn double spacing when they got a job in a law firm.
It's ok, then. Stay with the double spacing, Puss. But do you use Helvetica? Or Courier? They kind of go together. And does the roneo machine get a good workout? Does your boss wear a sun visor and braces? Are there shoe-shine boys clustered at the base of the skyscraper you work in? Do the secretaries have seams in the back of their stockings at all these Top Tier Law Firms?
How long is this going to go on?
Are you a practising lawyer?
Are you practising on me?
Actually, one of those top tiers did force their secretaries to wear stockings, Melba.
And no, I use TNR, 11.5, single spacing with 12pt after. Which, incidentally, has also been the style used at all the law firms I've worked at, bar one. Which used Arial. Gross.
And no, I'm not a practicing lawyer. Yet. And I would never stoop to Sear's level of threatening legal action against people on the internet.
Well lucky then. I'll be able to sleep easy tonight.
DV8 didn't become 'DV8' until the 2000s. Before that, it was Subculture (until some guy ODed in the band room upstairs). And it's never been a goth club, more goth/metal/general alternative, so it has a different feel to a just goth-identifying night club.
But it's a mainstay that pulls a crowd, so it'd be the first place I'd rock up to if I wanted a dance on a Saturday. I've not been for ages, but O, how a younger Desci would shame herself there.
Also, let me know when the band plays. (I've not heard 'Isreal's Son' in ages. I've said too much).
I'm a bit unsure what goths are supposed to look like. What I thought was the goth look was women in purple and black velvet clothes with heavy dark makeup or Brandon Lee in 'The Crow' or The Adams family look. Am I a long way off? What do you wear to look like a goth Perseus?
I learnt to touch type at TAFE in 1995 and it was double spaces after a full stop and in between suburb/state/postcode. This was a standard course for office admin, not a job specific course.
Smart, semi-ripened smokn' chicks with child bearing hips and former goth leanings do exist. Some live very close to the coast and would kill to live even closer. Cleavage, tatts, degrees and all - keep looking, Pers.
Im not an expert on womans clothing, but id say she's about a size 12. Fairly fit, into bushwalking (lots of bushwalking in Lorne).
Patch - yes! 2 spaces between the items on the last line of an address! Well, actually, I was taught it was 3, so that's what I do, but I'd settle for 2. My boy does commas and it irritates me no end!
Dr Golf, is your sister very tall?
And no, I use TNR, 11.5, single spacing with 12pt after. Which, incidentally, has also been the style used at all the law firms I've worked at, bar one. Which used Arial. Gross.
Pfffftt. All Top Tier I know use Comic Sans.
Ha. That would make it interesting, Fad! However, in the same way that lawyers cannot be funny (Shaun Micallef is a case in point), they are also unable to lighten up about anything. You should have heard the ruckus when they forced everyone to start writing in plain English!
However, in the same way that lawyers cannot be funny (Shaun Micallef is a case in point)
Since Shaun Micallef is one of the funniest comedians in Australia, you must clearly be making a joke. And since you are a lawyer in training AND making jokes, you have doubly invalidated your assertion.
Stone the bloody crows, yer 'onour, I rest me case.
Shaun Micallef is a case in point
You're dead to me, Puss.
Ha. I knew that would get a bite.
Quite frankly, I just don't see why everyone thinks he's amusing. Even my boy likes him. He makes me watch that Generation show and he sits there laughing uproariously at Micallef, whilst I'm left wondering what on earth was so funny. I just don't find him amusing in the slightest.
Different strokes for different folks.
You like girl on girl action, your boy likes Micallef...
I happen to like both...
"The whole threesome thing does nothing for me, and I reckon it's the same for most blokes."
To paraphrase Jeff from Coupling:
"Think of the advantages of having sex with two women at the same time - they can't both fall asleep and if one of them punches you and leaves, you still have one left."
And I agree with Puss on the subject of Shaun Micallef.
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