Wednesday, April 21, 2010

Atheists Have Ethics Too

Hugh Hefner said something interesting. Go figure. It was in response to Tiger Woods' so-called 'sex addiction' for which he is receiving clinical/medical attention.

But Hugh said, "I think by and large it's a cop out. I think 'sex addiction' is a convenient phrase... Sex is not like a drug or alcohol. It doesn't affect the physicality in the same way. But it can become very obsessive. Neurotic people can do very foolish things. People make choices. Most people who cheat do it because they think they can get away with it."

Bravo. From Duchovny to Sheen to Woods to that other guy who's married to Sandra Bullock, I say, you do not have a clinical addiction to sex any more than me and everyone I know. What you do have is a disregard for / disinterest in fidelity and monogamy. You are egotists with childlike minds.

I watched a documentary on the development of a child's mind. They put down a small piece of chocolate and said, "You can eat this now, or, you can wait ten minutes and have this bigger piece of chocolate instead..." I can't remember the actual ages but it was something along the lines of three to six year olds ate the small chocolate straight away, but by age seven, they could reason enough to wait the ten minutes and get the bigger chocolate.

Tiger Woods, metaphorically, took the small chocolate by cheating on his wife each and every time. That's not 'addiction', it's just Hedonism 101 - instant gratification for short-term gain, unable to to calculate the long-term losses it will create - with a garnishing of Ubermensch.

I cheated on a girl once. I was 21. I used all sorts of excuses but in the end, it was because the 'other woman' was there, offering sex, and I took it because I was weak - not 'addicted'.

I have also been cheated on... twice. Both girls also used implausible excuses when the real reason for cheating was as simple as 'they wanted sex with that other person'.

Ricky Gervais, in one of his standup performances, talked about how someone wanted him to donate money to a charity that was looking for a 'cure' to obesity. He remarked, "Obesity is not a disease. Polio is a disease."

The same goes for sex. Wanting lots of it is normal. Hell, it's essential for our species' survival. Monogamy is a social construct, I guess, but it does have evolutionary benefits in that it provides stronger family units and by extension, stronger communities.

Monogamy is very, very difficult at times, and I understand that the likelihood of a partner cheating on some level, whether it be blatant rooting or even just feelings / desires for another person is high, but if you do cheat on your lover, don't use the 'sex addiction' line.

Drugs are addictive because they have addictive chemical properties.

Sex is not addictive, it's just awesome and more-ish.


Pepsi said...


Especially the last bit.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

What would the treatment be for "sex addiction" I wonder.

Tiger Woods: "Doctor, you must help me. I have a terrible addiction to sex."

Doctor: "Well Mr Woods, you can either stop rooting around or we can cut your dick off."

Tiger Woods: "Um...

I think I'll stop rooting around."

Perseus said...

That probably is the best method, Ramon.

On a serious note, I would suggest that what Woods needs is a kind of philosophical counselling that can get through to him that although he is the greatest golfer the Universe has ever seen, he is also a fucking knob.

Pepsi said...

Is the person who treated Warnie avaliable?

He seems to manage now - worlds bestest eva spinner + total knob

What do you suggest for the sex addict chick? Do they have sex addict chicks or is it just a blokey "disease"?

Cath said...

Here here Pers... I heartily agree. When I heard the comments the other day by Hef, I was dumbfounded with the common sense of it all. Why has it taken someone SO long to say it publicly. And I was also heartened that it was someone like Hef. He is making no excuses for his own actions in that one statement, and taking responsibility for them. That is something surely lacking in many persons today!

Perseus said...

Pepsi - oh hell no. No way is it a blokes only thing. Anecdotally in my life, the cheaters are 50/50 men/women. Likewise, the people I know that desire sex all day every day (whether married or single) are also 50/50 men/women.

I would suggest that men are just more notorious for cheating, as opposed to being the more likely to cheat. That's just my life's observation though.

GiggleWorthy said...

Any person who accepts 'sex addiction' as an excuse for cheating is just the person I am looking for to buy this bridge I have for sale.

I'm not entirely sure I agree about the drugs thing though - I think that is also a choice. Yes, some people do have a physical addiction, but for many, it's purely mental. You have to want to quit before you can.

Perseus said...

True Giggles... but, although the initial taking of drugs is a choice, if you go too hard at it you do end up being addicted. Cigarettes in my case. If I go 6-8 hours (awake) without a cigarette I get ill and become mentally unstable. True dinx. I do have a choice to quit though and on that level you are very right. It's weakness that prevents me... reluctance, too.

Sex is very different. I may get a bit edgy after prolonged sex droughts, but I'm not physically impaired and I can attend to my work.

Besides which, if I have a Peter Suyvesant I'm not cheating on anyone, except for maybe Dunhill.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they need to establish some sort of legalised shooting galleries for the sexually addicted.

Seriously though, I don't know if sex addiction is real or not. I would think that if it were a chemical dependency, then the person would just end up as a chronic masturbator or something. On the other hand, there are all kinds of bizarre mental disorders out there. Most people here don't have any trouble believing that depression is a serious illness, and a lot of people say that that is nothing more than personal weakness.

When I was in my early twenties, I knew a bloke whose girlfriend would hit him up for sex at the most inopportune times. It'd usually start with a bit of nudging. If he ignored her for long enough, she would start asking him outright. If he refused, she would gradually get more and more agitated and eventually throw a tantrum like a heroin addict (I've known a few of those, as well). I can still remember her standing in the middle of a crowded room, shouting something along the lines of "Fuck you, you selfish prick! If you don't fuck me right now, I'm going to fucking find somebody who will". Maybe I shouldn't have laughed. Maybe that was sex addiction in action.

And Perseus, I think your chocolate analogy is a bit flawed, too. The kid who eats the small piece of chocolate is impulsive, but is still openly choosing between two alternatives. Habitually unfaithful adults are greedy, deceitful cunts with no regard for others, who are essentially trying to scam both pieces.

Perseus said...

Alex, my ex Andromeda 3.0 was exactly like that. She wanted sex all day, everyday and if I refused (which was often) she'd claim I didn't love her, have huge (sometimes violent) tantrums and also threaten to cheat. Having being with her so long I can report that it has nothing to do with an 'addiction to sex', and has everything to do with a greater emotional malaise.

Also, depression is an illness. Wanting sex is not an illness.

Perseus said...

To explain my last comment... even if Andromeda 3.0's sex drive was quelled, she would still have tantrums and violent outbursts over other things, and equally so.

In other words, it wasn't the sex, it was the deeper problem manifesting itself through sex - a deeper problem that should be clinically treated by professional medics.

But this is not what Tiger suffers from, presumably. He's just a cunt.

GiggleWorthy said...

Pers, I used to snort between 5 - 8 grams of coke a day for a couple of years. I used to rack up on my bedside table so I didn't even have to get out of bed to have my first line.

After 7 years of heavy drug use, including 2 years of constant drug use, if anyone was going to be addicted, I think it was me. I took more drugs then any sane person would.

I stopped cold turkey, with no difficulty.

I simply looked around a club one morning at 3 am, decided I didn't want to be here, doing this anymore so I stopped. I didn't even go home and finish off what I had - I gave it a friend.

Simple. Done. No regrets, no trauma.

I made a decision and I followed through. I believe that quitting is a choice and the greatest barrier is not a physical / chemical dependency.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

I wish somebody had given me their coke.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Also, I notice this is TSFKA 500th post.

Maybe there should be a prize or something.

Anonymous said...

Also, depression is an illness. Wanting sex is not an illness.

Perseus, Feeling a bit blue now and then is not an illness either. Not like clinical depression. Likewise, having a sex drive is not a illness. But isn't it possible that a person could have sexual compulsions that are so abnormally strong that their thinking and behaviour is impaired?

This is not a defence of Tiger. From the very, very little that I know about him (thank god), I believe that you are right about him just being a cunt.

After 7 years of heavy drug use, including 2 years of constant drug use, if anyone was going to be addicted, I think it was me. I took more drugs then any sane person would.

Did you use opiates as well, GW, or was it just coke?

I believe that quitting is a choice and the greatest barrier is not a physical / chemical dependency.

I agree. But chemical dependency on a physical level is still very real. Some people who go cold turkey die from withdrawal.

Also, I notice this is TSFKA 500th post.

Maybe there should be a prize or something.

Like a big pile of coke, Ramon?

patchouligirl said...

Thanks for the lecture on the joys of monogamy Perseus. Very amusing.

Perseus said...

Are you being facetious Patch? Hey, aside from a brain-fade at 21, I'm good at monogamy. My theory is that it's hard enough to maintain a relationship with one woman, let alone two.

The fact I haven't had a proper girlfriend to cheat on for three and a half years also helps.

GiggleWorthy said...

Ramon you just have to know the right people. I never paid for any of my drugs (in cash or kind).

Alex I took almost anything that didn't involve punching a hole in my body. I did have *some* standards to maintain.

I agree that in some cases there is a real physical dependency but I also believe many people use that as an excuse.

When I said I quit with no problems, I meant that I never felt that it was too hard to continue - I was sketchy and moody and had difficulty concentrating for a while, but I knew where it was coming from and I forced myself to concentrate, I consciously controlled my moods, when I felt sick, I ignored it and I never felt that I was 'suffering' (this too shall pass).

I think many people hit that point of detox and think they can't go on, so they just give up and say they can't.

Please note that I am also quite cynical as i watched people in the scene go to rehab, come out and get back onto it - but they'd gone without for months (in some cases) and gone through detox, so the need was mental, not physical.

I don't know, perhaps my attitude going into it helped as well - I always knew it wasn't a sustainable lifestyle and that sooner or later I would want to get off the ride before I hit the wall.

patchouligirl said...

Perseus, you sound like you would enjoy monogamy about as much as I would enjoy watching a whole season of cricket. Slow torture. That was how it read in the post anyway but it was a good laugh. Monogamy isn't that bad you know. Some people even prefer it!

Anonymous said...

Please note that I am also quite cynical as i watched people in the scene go to rehab, come out and get back onto it

GW, temptation is a bastard. That's why getting the substance out of your body isn't always enough. Sometimes you have to just cut ties with all of your mates and start over from scratch. I think that's an area where a lot of people struggle.

patchouligirl said...

I couldn't agree more about the sex addiction thing being a load of shit. I liked Donald Trump's take on it, that sex rehabilitation is crazy and Tiger Woods should get a divorce and become a playboy. The most honest thing said about it.

Perseus said...

Untrue, Patch.

I do enjoy monogamy.

But when I'm single I'm all over the shop. I'd root a chair-leg if it was charming enough.

patchouligirl said...

Which I have no problem with as long as you don't try and tell me it's some kind of chair-fixation illness.

GiggleWorthy said...

Alex, I didn't cut ties to all of those people. For some people cutting ties may well be the only way, but I still went out with them, I sat there and watched them take drugs and never once did I feel I was missing out - I had made my choice.

Everyone is different, I guess, I just get annoyed when I hear people say that they "can't quit" something when in reality, they haven't really tried because it was all too hard.

Lest you think I'm a complete bitch though, I do feel genuine sympathy for people who have tried and tried and who know they are destroying themselves but can't reprogam their brain and give up the addiction.

And heroin addiction is a whole other kettle of fish as well. I won't talk about that simply because I have never taken it and therefore have no personal perspective to offer. I only refer to ciggies and lesser drugs.

Side note - I quit smoking the same way I quit drugs - one day I was standing there having a smoke and thought 'Meh, bugger this for a game of soldiers' put out my ciggie (B&H Special Filter, in case you were wondering) and wandered back to my friends and gave the rest of my pack to my best friend and told her to have them. I've never smoked since.

Perseus said...

Damn... I was about to say that ciggies are much harder than the others but you blew my theory out the window Giggles.

But maybe it's just B&H Special Filters? My Dad smoked a pack a day of B&H Special Filters, and he also quit in an instant. He was in his early 40's. I was there at the time. we were at the breakfast table and he finished his smoke, put it in the ashtray and said, almost to himself, "That'll do."

He never smoked again.


My aim in life is to be a 'social smoker'.

Yes, that's my only aim in life.

GiggleWorthy said...

Would you feel better if I lied and said it was almost certainly linked to smoking B & H Special Filter? Because if it will make you feel better, I can say that.

Everyone needs a dream, Pers.

Anonymous said...

I can agree GW, that willpower is the single most important factor in quitting anything. But yeah, I don't personally know a single person who gave something up, kept their old friends and didn't end up slipping back, sooner or later.

I still went out with them, I sat there and watched them take drugs and never once did I feel I was missing out

That amazes me. I couldn't stand my mates if they were loaded and I wasn't. They were such a pack of repulsive, knuckle-dragging fuckwits. Maybe you just had better friends than I did.

Mr E Discharge said...

My aim in life is to be a 'social smoker'.

Don't cave in Pers. I've seen you smoke, and you're really good at it.The current "Smoking Is bad for you" fad will pass, as they all do and we'll need role models to educate a new generation in the gentle art. Stay Strong! A "social smoker" is the smoking equivalent of an agnostic.

Worth noting: The first person to ban smoking in public areas and public transport was Hitler.

Puss In Boots said...

I can't comment on addictions. I've never been addicted to anything. I've never even smoked a cigarette, let alone taken anything stronger. And I don't drink, and haven't been drunk since I was 18. And that was the one and only time I have ever been drunk.

I'm still pondering whether I will drink on my hen's night. On the one hand, it's a hen's night. On the other hand, it's just not me.

Leilani said...

Good on you Perseus. I can't for the life of me work out why you haven't been snapped up by now.

WitchOne said...

Wow. Some strong people and some relatively weak people. Personally, I beleive you can addictive personality. Which I know I have. I got physically and mentally addicted to cigarettes at 11 so that sucks and I will continue trying to quit. I control alcohol by never having been a day time drinker, never getting drunk on a work night and refusing to start now.

I tried many other drugs but dope was the only one that I liked and therefore had enough of to cause an issue so I dumped the people I smoked with, who had supplies or who smoked in general. Now, I can smoke it every so often without the need for more but I generally don't bother. As for sex, that too is addictive in its own way but it doesn't condone cheating on your partner. I've been known to turn it down in my relationship because it's easier to go without than to have it once and be refused the next night and the night after that and the night after that for a month or more. He doesn't have the same libido which is a cause for the occasional argument but never cheating. Ewwww.

Tiger is a fuckwit but we all deal with our needs and/or addictions in our own ways. People who can be pragmatic about regular substance abuse have my admiration (which appears to be most of you. Huh, who knew..).

WitchOne said...

Ooops, sorry for the rant, it's late, I'm tired and pissed off but the energy was directed here instead of the dishes.


GiggleWorthy said...

Alex I think within any large group of people there is a 'core' group and then the 'others'.

The others were indeed knuckle dragging fuckwits (they were friends made while in the scene) and drifted away quickly - they needed drugs and drama to get them through their day, you see.

The core group however were brilliant people and we all still see each other frequently - we were friends before, during and after drugs. It makes a big difference.

Puss, you will be drinking on your hens night. End of story.

Anonymous said...

GW, I don't think I've ever had a 'core' group of friends. Maybe it's got to do with the amount that I moved around. Maybe not. Anyway, it sounds like I've really missed out on something.

GiggleWorthy said...

Alex, our 'core' group consisted of 2 sets of siblings, a married couple... Basically people who we had known for years, so there were a lot of long term links there that would never have been severed anyway.

Then we had another group of long term friends who partied with us every so often but weren't as hard into it as we were and then there were the 'others'.

I couldn't think of anything worse then going out with a bunch of people I didn't really know and getting wasted. I would never have been able to relax and enjoy the rush and what happens in that situation when someone OD's?

If there are no ties, if you OD you are on your own and I saw that in action many, many times while I was out. I've probably nursed more strangers through OD's then I've nursed people I know through them!

One thing I will say though, nothing straightens you up faster then walking into the bathroom and seeing someone on the ground while everyone else ignores them and walks past. It's positively barbaric.