Friday, December 12, 2008

We're Not Racist But...

What’s with this kid Tyler Cassidy?

I’m no great fan of the police, particularly when they over-react, and particularly when it involves the use of guns. And particularly when they book me for an illegal u-turn when it wasn’t even a u-turn you fucking cocksucking bastard! But if this kid was genuinely threatening the police with knives and they shot him out of self-defence, then they had no real alternative. Shoot him in the legs? Not likely with limited practise, adrenaline-driven excitement and an antiquated shooting implement.

It’s no good when somebody’s shot. When the person shot is a kid, that’s even worse. But what’s going on with him? He was a member of the Southern Cross Soldiers, an ultra right wing group of illiterate rednecks out to rid the country of immigrants. What’s with that? Hasn’t he enjoyed a good lasagne, a curry or a kebab? (Yes I know it’s not all about food but I’m hungry).

He didn’t deserve to be shot – who does – but what business does an ill-informed 15 year old have brandishing knives at Northcote Plaza? Probably looking for gooks, niggers or wogs to cut up. Possibly off his head on drugs or, more tragically, severely mentally disturbed. This is disastrous and nothing good’s going to come of it. Why can’t people just get along and make love, not war?

Ironically, he was shot at the All Nations Park.

Good Evening.


Perseus said...

I was going to post on this but couldn't find a diplomatic medium between "Oh the poor boy," and "Racist little cunt".

However, the kid was only 15, so maybe he would've grown out of it. Maybe his parents were racists (I have no idea if they are or not).

I do feel sorry for his family, but I also feel sorry for the cops who seem to get a bad rap when this happens. If I had a gun, and some kid was coming at me with a knife saying he is going to kill me, I'd shoot.

I don't think there should be anti-cop sentiment as a result of this.

I agree: Tragedy all 'round.

catlick said...

At first blush it does seem like "death by cop" but I fear it will bolster the taser argument. The now customary use of "non-lethal" tasers in Queensland to make argumentative people compliant (prone, immobilized and soiling themselves) has shifted tasers from being an humane alternative to shooting to a brutal control device; exactly what happened in the States. Don't tase me bro indeed.

WitchOne said...

Funny isn't it? I immediately thought (and then chatted with Dad and he thought the same), what is the rest of the story? Cops will not shoot just anyone, 3 out of 4 shot this kid. Methinks he deserved it really and those cops getting counseling? I think they need it, this cannot have been an easy situation to be in or an easy decision to make.

At 15 you have ideals that if extreme, you most likely will not grow out of. Sad but true, I remember 15 very well, it was only (almost) 17 years ago (early onset Alzheimers anyone?? That's me. Yesterday. Who? Years ago. Recalled perfectly.)

One more fuckwit removed from the gene pool.

catlick said...

"One more fuckwit removed from the gene pool."

Is it Nature or Nurture?

"Tyler's mother, Sharni, said. "Why was he slayed to death when it was so unnecessary?"

WitchOne said...

Great, so they watch a lot of TV in that family?? Sharni.. Imagine her mother when she was a kid, Sharniiiiiiiiiii c'mere ya liddle shit!

Sorry, I have an objection to some people.

patchouligirl said...

Regardless of how misguided this 15 year old was, he wasn't very big - did you see the photo of him? I'm just trying to picture 4 cops - 4 grown men - who couldn't resolve this without shooting him dead. These cops have to deal with far more difficult offenders than this but they couldn't handle a 15 year old? Maybe they are in the wrong job and should be driving Mr Whippy vans.

Perseus said...

PG - He had one of the cops cornered, approached him with a knife and told the cop he was going to kill him. The other three cops did what they had to do.

The kid even rang the cops earlier and told them he was going to kill someone.

It's not four 'grown-men' against a defenceless kid. It's four policemen against a person with knives wanting to kill them.

Melba said...

And it seems it was 2 more experience male cops and 2 female constables.

Why aren't they trained to tackle people with knives? A gun, I can undertand, you want to shoot them. But a skinny little kid, admittedly enraged and unstopped by 2 doses of cap-spray, how hard is it? Taser or batons - surely there are other options before you shoot someone?

Lewd Bob said...

He was also apparently screaming violently to such an extent that eyewitnesses assumed he was on ice. Don't know if that's true but such was his demeanor. Pretty scary having someone confronting you with 2 long knives screaming uncontrollably.

On the other hand, that's just what we've read in the news. Problem with these situations is nobody, expect those there, will ever know the compete truth.

Melba said...

And it's irrelevant whether he was racist, or a fuckwit, or his mother uses tautologies. He's dead and he probably shouldn't be.

shitbmxrider said...

I find it funny the main photo they are showing of him is the usual "look how innocent" photo, and not the one off his myspazz which is him posing in a mirror, flexing and drinking a beer, where he doesnt look so small..

And agree with the sentiment, another fuckwit removed from the genepool

Lewd Bob said...

Here's a bit more of an insight into what type of kid he was:

This kid was racist, hateful and misguided, however I don't agree with the implication that he deserved to die. If that's what you believe then you would, arguably, agree with capital punishment for the offence of threatening people with knives.

All I was doing in my post was defending the actions of the police.

WitchOne said...

I've not said he deserved to die but I certainly not blaming the cops nor an I disagreeing with his death.

It's a case of shit happens for me.

Anonymous said...

Problem with these situations is nobody, expect those there, will ever know the compete truth.

I guess that's the flip side of having cameras in public places. It lets you go back and scrutinise the actions of law enforcement as well as law breakers. Of course, without audio you're not getting the full picture.

Whether or not this kid was a fuckwit might be important if you want to decide whether or not you want to feel sorry for him, but I don't think it has much to do with him being killed, as the role of police is not to make those kinds of judgments. What concerns me is if the actions of the officers involved were unavoidable, and I have no way of saying how I would react in that situation with only a second or two to consider my options.

Based on my severely limited knowledge and experience, I can only wonder if the police force puts sufficient resources into training its officers for these kinds of physical situations, or if an increase in paperwork and internal bureaucracy are taking away from that sort of thing.

catlick said...

What shits me is the way interest groups use the corpse as a podium. Every fucken time the usual suspects jostle for a foothold to launch their reflex version of why this makes their argument more valid. They'll stay up there until the kid's chest caves in under the weight of their collective lobbying.

Jamie said...

I was on the scene of the shooting less than 30 minutes after it happened, saw the distressed relatives and all. A few thoughts:

- the area where the shooting happened was very dark. Even if the boy was small, he was also armed with two large knives and charging the coppers in a dimly lit area.

- two of the police involved were constables, both with less than four years' experience. One of them didn't shoot. The far more experienced leading senior constable and senior connie also fired.

- they used oc spray twice and one copper fired warning shots - against regulations - before fatally wounding the boy.

- despite the popular myth perpetuated by American TV, it is bloody difficult to use a service .38 to shoot an offender's leg in a life-threatening situation. That's why police all over the world are taught to draw their guns as a last resort and, once drawn, shoot for the greatest body mass.

patchouligirl said...

The cops could have disarmed this kid without killing him. Cops have to deal with riots where they are getting beer cans lobbed at their heads and are attacked with knives and other weapons - all they needed here was some protective gear and a bit of fucking gumption so the FOUR of them could overpower the kid without being injured themselves.

What if the kid hadn't been a neo nazi or on drugs? What if he had been simply delusional or bi polar? Is the answer in future to have cops shoot dead any mental patient that waves a knife at them?

WitchOne said...

Patch, good point but did they HAVE protective gear?

Did they KNOW what was going on when they got there? Or was it a case of chase a psycho, sorry, an ARMED psycho, and try to catch him?

Since you clearly have so much more experience that those cops involved, present your resume to the police force, get accepted and change the establishment from the inside.

Sorry, But I think you can tell, I believe you're wrong, very wrong in this case. I know cops can make mistakes and some can be bastards but a riot situation is the worst sort of comparative example.

patchouligirl said...

The kid even rang the cops earlier and told them he was going to kill someone. I think they had an idea of the situation they were going into and had the opportunity to equip themselves with protective gear.

MrsK said...

WitchOne said..Cops will not shoot just anyone, 3 out of 4 shot this kid. Methinks he deserved it really

So he deserved to be shot at by 3 cops but not to die?? What exactly do you mean if you don't mean he deserved to die?

As a youth worker I can tell you that I and many other youth workers have been faced with similar situations, kids angry and hyped and carrying weapons, and we've all dealt with it in a manner very differently than these particular cops. No kids ended up dead as a result.

Ramon Insertnamehere said...

Call me Mr Cynical, but I don't think it's entirely co-incidential that this appeared in the Hun today.

Louche said...

I agree with whoever said that the kid being a neo-nazi is completely irrelevant.

It sounds to me that he had a mental illness that was not being managed and that is just sad.

It is a shame there are no other options for cops in this situation, I agree with Patch that overpowering him could surely have been an option, but that said if they are not trained to do that they can only act with the powers they have, i.e to shoot.

I imagine it would have been a horrible decision for the cops to make.

wari lasi said...

These things always get emotive when it's someone so young.

He attacked the police with a deadly weapon and got shot. I think it was Perseus who said that if comeone attacked him with a knife and he had a gun, he'd shoot them. Me too.

Jamie's on the money when it comes to police training, a lot of time is spent on making the decision to shoot, but when they do they aim for the large body mass. I've had some self protection training here in the use of firearms and you get taught the same thing, the priority is to protect yourself. When you feel your life, or a colleague's life, is in genuine danger then you shoot to stop the attacker. At that stage you are normally over-loaded with adrenaline and the average person is shaking like a leaf, any sort of precision shooting is out of the question.

The police did what they had to do and deserve the support of the cummunity that they are there to protect. That's us.

Perseus said...

That's your second police shooting this year isn't it Jamie?

Do you get to speak to the cops off the record?

catlick said...

"Les Twentyman who didn't know the kid said Tyler's aunt contacted him...."*

Inserting yourself into the narrative as usual you fat bastard.

And does that Spanish chef at El Buli use capsicum foam?


Jamie said...

Yeah, Pers. It's the second I've covered this year. The other one was down in Kings Way, when the cops shot dead a bloke who was shooting at them.

You never get to speak directly to the cops involved.

Patch, I'm almost certain divisional vans are not equipped with riot gear.

And I'm not necessarily saying the cops involved did everything right.

But in the dark and with someone running at you armed with two knives, who hasn't even been slowed up by capsicum spray, there surely aren't too many options available.

The coroner will rule on the case, so don't expect a police whitewash.

Good call on that police assault yarn, Ramon.

Lewd Bob said...

I think ideally the police would have some other option. I know there's plenty of opposition to tasers but I'd much rather by tasered than shot, even if I did shit my pants. I think I'd shit my pants if shot by a revolver in the largest body mass, and most likely die.

Jamie said...

I agree, LB, but I also think it's premature to suggest the cops were wrong before all the acts come to light.

It's true the boy himself phoned 000 to say he intended to kill someone but he did so within two minutes of the divvy vans arriving. Not much time to gather the riot gear, CAT team and social workers.

Lewd Bob said...

Completely agree Jamie. I don't think the cops were wrong, but the poor saps, I'm certain, would rather not shoot people.

WitchOne said...

Let me clarify, threatening the cops in a deadly manner, yes, I'd say he deserved to get shot. Not to die, but getting shot was a realistic expectation after the threats and the physical intention to carry out those threats.

That Spanish chef foams everything, he works 6 months of the year in his lab on new types of foam he can make. I'd say capsicum foam is old news to him now!

Les Twentyman was a good guy once upon a time, now he's a publicity hound and boring with it.

patchouligirl said...

Not much time to gather the riot gear, CAT team and social workers. So if the kid had a gun would they rock up without bullet proof vests? They wouldn't need full riot gear for a kid with a knife and I'm interested that they don't carry sufficient protective clothing to deal with this type of event i.e. person with knife, which isn't that uncommon. And the capsicum spray didn't work? Why the hell not? How did the kid manage to corner one cop when they presumably arrived together? I can't wait for the inquest and am obviously not the only one who is wondering how adequate police procedures, equipment and training are.

Having said that, this kid was probably too far gone to ever be a contributing member of society.

catlick said...

"ideally the police would have some other option. I know there's plenty of opposition to tasers but I'd much rather by tasered than shot, even if I did shit my pants."

If this were either/or, then yes the taser is a good non lethal option to a service revolver. Unfortunately in most cases world wide where the taser is used, it was not used as a harm minimising alternative to lethal force, it was used to reduce risk to officers in a physical but not life threatening confrontation. It has become the weapon of first choice. In a situation where batons would be deemed an outrageous abuse tasers are routinely used. (Of course civilians are "entitled" to use tasers in the States, and they now come in pretty colours and a purse pack.)
Perhaps the days of having burly officers using their size and strength to subdue an offender are past. Perhaps it is unreasonable to ask police to get bashed in the line of duty. But let's call tasers for what they are, and not pretend they are to help perpetrators.

Jamie said...

How much equipment would you like a standard divvy van to carry? I'm not sure every copper has a flak jacket either but I'd happily stand corrected.

Anonymous said...

Bring Robocop out of retirement. Problem solved.

WitchOne said...

What about a society with games like Bladerunner?

wari lasi said...

What about a society with games like Bladerunner?

Come to Port Moresby Witchie. Here we call it "Race the Raskal". Trying to get home from a nightclub half pissed at 3 o'clock in the morning. You get pulled over at a roadblock manned by police who are more drunk than you are and get harrassed for money or cigarettes. Or they want to know where the girls in the car are from and are you married? You leave that debacle K50 (about $26) lighter only to be later accosted by the fuckwits the police should have been hassling who step out in front of you with a gun in attempt to take your vehicle. Instantly sober, you drive straight at the prick/s who normally jump out of the way, arrive safely home, call the police who, if they answer at all, say they don't have a vehicle and besides they've probably run away by now.

And I'm not joking. But did I say I love it here?

Perhaps that's where my complete lack of compassion for people who can't just be peaceful and abide by the law comes from.

wari lasi said...

And sorry to go off topic, but Mercedes Corby has done a photo shoot for Ralph Magazine.

Now that sounds like something truly worthy of a good ralph.

Anonymous said...

I counted her teeth and I make her age around 624.

Fad MD said...

Friends who have been posted to Moresby have told me there is only one certainty there, and that is that the suspect in any crime that is committed can be described as "departing the scene wearing an NRL jersey".

Which basically sums up rugby league for me.

Oh and on the original post - the coppers are damned whichever way they approach it. Too much protective gear and they may escalate the situation, too little and there are in real danger.

For me, if the guy made it through a couple of hits of capsicum spray (that stuff REALLY hurts) and ignored some warning shots into the ground (as Jamie said - this is not standard procedure), then there's not much more that could have been done to stop him.

Fad MD said...

And I'm surprised that any camera could record any detail with the reflected flash from Merc's choppers.

WitchOne said...

So Wari, can we have our next family holiday at your place?? ;-)

wari lasi said...

You and yours are most welcome Witchie. I have a lovely view of Fairfax Harbour.

And FAD, the cops normally ask, "Was he Blues or Marooons?". They do indeed take their rugby league very seriously here.

catlick said...

Wari Lasi my grandfather was born in Port Moresby, and his father lived and worked there for years. Given the locals would surely have forgiven and forgotten any and all Colonial excess can I visit too?

WitchOne said...

Kewl, I'll hold you to that you know! Emma would have a lovely time with the kids, or be bored brainless, either or.

Saw the pics of Merc Corby, it's amazing what photoshop can do. Her comment about keeping her sister (whose name escapes me at the moment) in the spotlight was overshadowed by the blatant self promotion of Mercs' "assets".

wari lasi said...

Catlick, all welcome. The beauty of this place is there's so much ridiculous stuff going on all the time that whatever you did last week is forgotten, let alone years ago!

And Witchie, Emma is mostly "company starved" being an "only" child (she has a half brother and sister who she's never met), so she's always glad to see anyone. And it's school bloody holidays so I'm going nuts trying to keep her occupied. And we've got a pool and access to a lovely boat and, and. God, do I sound desperate for company now?

I'm not really, but in all seriousness Moresby and PNG in general doesn't really deserve the lousy press it gets. There's lots of upside to living in the tropics and the expat lifestyle in general is pretty good. As I'm sure FAD can confirm. Having maids and stuff is pretty cool.

WitchOne said...

Send Emma to us for this holidays then, I have 8 staying over and about 15 for Christmas day plus assorted drop ins (my family is only coming because they know I'm cooking this year!).

First and last year I declare it's "open house".

wari lasi said...

Tempting Witchie. But sending an unaccompanied minor overseas to someone you don't even know would be dodgy to say the least, don't you reckon? Not casting aspersions on your character or anything ...

Besides she's so lovely you'd never want to send her back. And despite the fact that she's driving me mad at the moment, Id miss her.

wari lasi said...

Besides, it sounds like you're a good cook and I love eating. So I'd have to some too.

I can just see Mr Warlock, "And this is?"

"Just some guy I know from the internet"

"And you invite him to our home?"

"Look, he's got a really cute daughter"

I could go on and on ...

I'm taking Emma to the illustrious Lamana Hotel (google it, it's very nice) for Christmas Day. The GM is a mate of mine and his duaghter and Emma are in the same class at school.

Better stop this or Boogey will get cross.

Anonymous said...

Me? Why?

WitchOne said...

Could this be construed as cyber kissy face?? Surely not!

Mr Warlock would be fine with it, he is well aware that I don't conform to his version of normality, and, what's more, I don't care to.

And you're just worried Emma wouldn't want to leave!! :-P